Hi all,
I would be very grateful on feedback regarding doing NDTMS in primary care. We are locally trying to look at the best way to impliment this i.e Gp practice to take ownership of data input or to get Gp liaison service to do data input. I just wanted to get some feedback from others on how they tackle this issue, NTA can't offer much advice on how they have not thought about primary care in development of NDTMS and linking into primary care system.Obviously some resistance from GP's in duplication of work and it is difficult to get practice staff to be data lead for NDTMS due to turnover. Does anyone link NDTMS input to LES? Should it be GP responsiblity? Wouyld welcome your thoughts around this issue. Many thanks

The current irritating mantra appears to be no data , no TOPS no more dosh. Just make them up everybody else appears to be doing that!

Ha ha! Sorry to seem po-faced about this but I actually think TOPS forms are useful... OK they could be improved... but if done at the start of a review they collect information that you would mostly want to collect anyway, hardly take any time to do and structure the consultation well if followed up by a review of Care Plan points... In the areas/clinics I work it is generally expected that the key-worker should fill them in but I think GPs should do them if they are conducting a review themselves and the 3 month period is up (or if they are operating as the key-worker themselves which happens in some cases) I don't think GPs should think they are too high and mighty to do them or think their reviews are so great that a checklist (the Care Plan) isn't helpful either ;-). I guess its a personality/preference thing but basically they have to be done - some form of audit or feedback is useful and necessary - and if "one" were running the NTA "oneself", "one" would have to devise something similar! I feel sorry for our DAAT commissioner who is tearing his hair out. I wouldn't pay up, either, unless I got them all completed - and the time is fast approaching I think when DAATs will have to do that. Actually I have to declare a kind of interest... my DAAT seems has identified me as a TOPS champion and I'm contributing to a TOPS discussion (enforcement?) afternoon next week...

Apologies,if my tongue in cheek were not fully appreciated. That said, I know of some areas where the pressure to get them done has seen corners cut and they would not stand up to any sort of validation process .
The points re the NTA and DATs are well made and treatment cannot have an open cheque.
My issue is where they become the story rather than something that aids the story as suggested by Simon.I also like the idea of Dr's completing these documents and being used to review and plan care.
The sooner the crime question is consigned to history the better(The NTA themselves acknowledge its worthlessness)

quote:

Originally posted by Perseverance:
Apologies,if my tongue in cheek were not fully appreciated. That said, I know of some areas where the pressure to get them done has seen corners cut and they would not stand up to any sort of validation process .
The points re the NTA and DATs are well made and treatment cannot have an open cheque.
My issue is where they become the story rather than something that aids the story as suggested by Simon.I also like the idea of Dr's completing these documents and being used to review and plan care.
The sooner the crime question is consigned to history the better(The NTA themselves acknowledge its worthlessness)

Do you have a reference to the NTA saying the crime question is worthless?
Questions were asked of me when I put on this forum that I wouldn't ask questions about crime.
In fact questions were asked behind my back I was not happy.

I agree that TOPS can be useful though I would look forward to their improvement in time. They can be completed quickly and a positive approach to them encourages the patient to feel postive about the responses too.They can help to flag up care issues. Sometimes unexpected answers are given and this can lead towards improvement in treatment plans.
Within my former job in general practice, we returned the complete data set from the ndtms patient profile (with consent). The print-offs helped keep track of things too.
It seems like we are asking forever more intrusive information from this client group, but if it helps to work out 'what works'and leads to better standards, then it is worth it